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	<title>Comments for Farming Pathogens</title>
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	<link>http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>Disease in a world of our own making</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:02:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Heart of Modeling by opit</title>
		<link>http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/heart-of-modeling/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>opit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-168</guid>
		<description>&#039;Nice&#039; doesn&#039;t cover it. rg. I collect articles on cultural lies and flim flam : this is one of the best I&#039;ve seen.
It&#039;s going in the collection
http://opitslinkfest.blogspot.com/2009/07/perception-alteration.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Nice&#8217; doesn&#8217;t cover it. rg. I collect articles on cultural lies and flim flam : this is one of the best I&#8217;ve seen.<br />
It&#8217;s going in the collection<br />
<a href="http://opitslinkfest.blogspot.com/2009/07/perception-alteration.html" rel="nofollow">http://opitslinkfest.blogspot.com/2009/07/perception-alteration.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on About by blueberrymuffins</title>
		<link>http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/about/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>blueberrymuffins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 06:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-165</guid>
		<description>This is great!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is great!</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Visitation of the Influenza by rgwallace</title>
		<link>http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/a-visitation-of-the-influenza/#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>rgwallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/?p=404#comment-161</guid>
		<description>Allow me a quick and dirty answer, as I am no expert in vaccine minutia. On a fly-by through the scientific literature I found

1) Simenson et al.&#039;s (1) influential 2005 paper on the overestimation of the effectiveness of influenza vaccines in the elderly. 

But also 2) Nichol et al. (2)&#039;s sensitivity analysis measuring the effects of an unnamed confounder on elderly survivorship. Confounders might include race, income, or--Brownlee and Lenzer&#039;s bugaboo--functional status.

Nichol et al. concluded that even in the face of a healthy-vaccinee effect, vaccines remained significantly protective across the 18 cohorts of community-dwelling elderly and across the year-to-year variation of their 10-season study. For the record, the study did not include nursing homes, in which the frailest, with less responsive immune systems, live. 

For the two seasons in which the vaccine provided a poor match, vaccination still offered a significant reduction in hospitalization and death, although less so than seasons with a better match. In other words, mismatched vaccines may still provide protection at the population level (although this may play out differently from person-to-person). I&#039;d like to add the hypothesis--perhaps already offered elsewhere--that herd and partial immunity have a longer expiration date than over a single season. Is the protection accumulative?

Other countries (3) have shown declines in elderly mortality upon introduction of a nationwide vaccine program. As the immune response is in part social in origin (4), one wonders if vaccines&#039; coverage-response surface is structured by the state of an area&#039;s socioeconomics. Do vaccines fail more across seasons in which, and in regions where, the elderly population--and the institutions that support them--are in severe fiscal stress or social crisis?

Consider this, Eric O., a heartfelt invitation to cull the literature too. And the more the merrier (and the faster we’ll all learn).

(1) http://origem.info/FIC/pdf/Simonson%20et%20al%20Impact%20of%20Influ_Arch%20Intern%20Med%2005.pdf
(2) http://www.preventinfluenza.org/newsletters/nejm.pdf
(3) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&amp;_udi=B6TD4-4T890SX-2&amp;_user=10&amp;_rdoc=1&amp;_fmt=&amp;_orig=search&amp;_sort=d&amp;_docanchor=&amp;view=c&amp;_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&amp;_acct=C000050221&amp;_version=1&amp;_urlVersion=0&amp;_userid=10&amp;md5=ffac9428733c9d2ffb78e98f733e0c98
(4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11932203</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allow me a quick and dirty answer, as I am no expert in vaccine minutia. On a fly-by through the scientific literature I found</p>
<p>1) Simenson et al.&#8217;s (1) influential 2005 paper on the overestimation of the effectiveness of influenza vaccines in the elderly. </p>
<p>But also 2) Nichol et al. (2)&#8217;s sensitivity analysis measuring the effects of an unnamed confounder on elderly survivorship. Confounders might include race, income, or&#8211;Brownlee and Lenzer&#8217;s bugaboo&#8211;functional status.</p>
<p>Nichol et al. concluded that even in the face of a healthy-vaccinee effect, vaccines remained significantly protective across the 18 cohorts of community-dwelling elderly and across the year-to-year variation of their 10-season study. For the record, the study did not include nursing homes, in which the frailest, with less responsive immune systems, live. </p>
<p>For the two seasons in which the vaccine provided a poor match, vaccination still offered a significant reduction in hospitalization and death, although less so than seasons with a better match. In other words, mismatched vaccines may still provide protection at the population level (although this may play out differently from person-to-person). I&#8217;d like to add the hypothesis&#8211;perhaps already offered elsewhere&#8211;that herd and partial immunity have a longer expiration date than over a single season. Is the protection accumulative?</p>
<p>Other countries (3) have shown declines in elderly mortality upon introduction of a nationwide vaccine program. As the immune response is in part social in origin (4), one wonders if vaccines&#8217; coverage-response surface is structured by the state of an area&#8217;s socioeconomics. Do vaccines fail more across seasons in which, and in regions where, the elderly population&#8211;and the institutions that support them&#8211;are in severe fiscal stress or social crisis?</p>
<p>Consider this, Eric O., a heartfelt invitation to cull the literature too. And the more the merrier (and the faster we’ll all learn).</p>
<p>(1) <a href="http://origem.info/FIC/pdf/Simonson%20et%20al%20Impact%20of%20Influ_Arch%20Intern%20Med%2005.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://origem.info/FIC/pdf/Simonson%20et%20al%20Impact%20of%20Influ_Arch%20Intern%20Med%2005.pdf</a><br />
(2) <a href="http://www.preventinfluenza.org/newsletters/nejm.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.preventinfluenza.org/newsletters/nejm.pdf</a><br />
(3) <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&amp;_udi=B6TD4-4T890SX-2&amp;_user=10&amp;_rdoc=1&amp;_fmt=&amp;_orig=search&amp;_sort=d&amp;_docanchor=&amp;view=c&amp;_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&amp;_acct=C000050221&amp;_version=1&amp;_urlVersion=0&amp;_userid=10&amp;md5=ffac9428733c9d2ffb78e98f733e0c98" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&amp;_udi=B6TD4-4T890SX-2&amp;_user=10&amp;_rdoc=1&amp;_fmt=&amp;_orig=search&amp;_sort=d&amp;_docanchor=&amp;view=c&amp;_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&amp;_acct=C000050221&amp;_version=1&amp;_urlVersion=0&amp;_userid=10&amp;md5=ffac9428733c9d2ffb78e98f733e0c98</a><br />
(4) <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11932203" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11932203</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on A Visitation of the Influenza by Eric O.</title>
		<link>http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/a-visitation-of-the-influenza/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric O.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 04:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/?p=404#comment-160</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m of similar mind regarding vaccination in general, of course, but there&#039;s one argument that Brownlee and Lenzer reference which I&#039;m curious about. I agree with the argument about the ecological fallacy in pointing to a steady or increasing secular trend in death rates among the elderly as an argument about the ineffectiveness of vaccination. But what about the point they make about the years 1968 and 1997 in which there was apparently a mismatch between the vaccination and the circulating virus. They claim there was no excursion in death rates above the overall trend. This is obviously not a journal article, so they don&#039;t provide detailed numbers that the reader can examine, but I&#039;m wondering if you have thoughts about that point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m of similar mind regarding vaccination in general, of course, but there&#8217;s one argument that Brownlee and Lenzer reference which I&#8217;m curious about. I agree with the argument about the ecological fallacy in pointing to a steady or increasing secular trend in death rates among the elderly as an argument about the ineffectiveness of vaccination. But what about the point they make about the years 1968 and 1997 in which there was apparently a mismatch between the vaccination and the circulating virus. They claim there was no excursion in death rates above the overall trend. This is obviously not a journal article, so they don&#8217;t provide detailed numbers that the reader can examine, but I&#8217;m wondering if you have thoughts about that point.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Heart of Modeling by Richard</title>
		<link>http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/heart-of-modeling/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/?p=323#comment-148</guid>
		<description>&gt;And here all along I thought South Minneapolis was God’s 
&gt;country. So fundamental to a political infrastructure is a 
&gt;geographically tilted metaphysics that ample evidence to the 
&gt;contrary is met with terminal prejudice.

I wonder if some scientists dislike religion NOT because they believe religion has caused so much trouble through the ages, but because they hate the idea of others not viewing them as gods. It&#039;s the only explanation I have for this obsession with demonising all religious people and labelling them as imbeciles.

There are plenty of decent religious people who harm no one, but they never get a mention. There are also scientists who are happy to harm any number of people, such as those that worked for Nazi Germany.

I&#039;m agnostic. However, I still cannot see how it is the height of rationality to believe, or how it is obvious, that the universe - or whatever mechanism gave birth to it - created itself, upholds itself, and does so for no reason WHATSOEVER other than it - &quot;it&quot; being nothing - feels like it.

And how is it perfectly reasonable to claim consciousness is caused by matter. Perhaps you can tell me how, because even Einstein couldn&#039;t see how it could be done - he said science will NEVER be able to explain consciousness.

According to the scientific orthodoxy, I&#039;m just a collection of particles, none of which is conscious. All the experiences I&#039;m having, therefore, are not real - particles do not experience anything! - and my sense of identity is also not real, as I&#039;m just a lump of matter, made of the same stuff as a rock. Quite remarkable. I&#039;m alive, but really I&#039;m dead! I&#039;m conscious, but really I&#039;m not!

As for death being the end. We have all been dead already. Before I was born, I was a bunch of atoms floating in space - I was dead! But then I was born. In the future, I will die, and become atoms dispersed in space once more. So, who&#039;s to say I won&#039;t wake up again? I was dead once before, but I woke up.

The only way to make sense of the above is to DENY consciousness, which is what many scientists do, especially those with an axe to grind against religion.

Instead of attacking religion, scientists should explain consciousness, because that is why religion exists - because we are conscious beings! Religion is NOT mere indoctrination, it is part of our evolutionary heritage, so to speak.

(Joseph Levine is an atheist, has a PhD from Harvard, yet can&#039;t explain consciousness: in his book, &quot;Purple Haze&quot;, he admits science is clueless. I wish scientists today could be this honest. I wish there could be a respectful debate).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;And here all along I thought South Minneapolis was God’s<br />
&gt;country. So fundamental to a political infrastructure is a<br />
&gt;geographically tilted metaphysics that ample evidence to the<br />
&gt;contrary is met with terminal prejudice.</p>
<p>I wonder if some scientists dislike religion NOT because they believe religion has caused so much trouble through the ages, but because they hate the idea of others not viewing them as gods. It&#8217;s the only explanation I have for this obsession with demonising all religious people and labelling them as imbeciles.</p>
<p>There are plenty of decent religious people who harm no one, but they never get a mention. There are also scientists who are happy to harm any number of people, such as those that worked for Nazi Germany.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m agnostic. However, I still cannot see how it is the height of rationality to believe, or how it is obvious, that the universe &#8211; or whatever mechanism gave birth to it &#8211; created itself, upholds itself, and does so for no reason WHATSOEVER other than it &#8211; &#8220;it&#8221; being nothing &#8211; feels like it.</p>
<p>And how is it perfectly reasonable to claim consciousness is caused by matter. Perhaps you can tell me how, because even Einstein couldn&#8217;t see how it could be done &#8211; he said science will NEVER be able to explain consciousness.</p>
<p>According to the scientific orthodoxy, I&#8217;m just a collection of particles, none of which is conscious. All the experiences I&#8217;m having, therefore, are not real &#8211; particles do not experience anything! &#8211; and my sense of identity is also not real, as I&#8217;m just a lump of matter, made of the same stuff as a rock. Quite remarkable. I&#8217;m alive, but really I&#8217;m dead! I&#8217;m conscious, but really I&#8217;m not!</p>
<p>As for death being the end. We have all been dead already. Before I was born, I was a bunch of atoms floating in space &#8211; I was dead! But then I was born. In the future, I will die, and become atoms dispersed in space once more. So, who&#8217;s to say I won&#8217;t wake up again? I was dead once before, but I woke up.</p>
<p>The only way to make sense of the above is to DENY consciousness, which is what many scientists do, especially those with an axe to grind against religion.</p>
<p>Instead of attacking religion, scientists should explain consciousness, because that is why religion exists &#8211; because we are conscious beings! Religion is NOT mere indoctrination, it is part of our evolutionary heritage, so to speak.</p>
<p>(Joseph Levine is an atheist, has a PhD from Harvard, yet can&#8217;t explain consciousness: in his book, &#8220;Purple Haze&#8221;, he admits science is clueless. I wish scientists today could be this honest. I wish there could be a respectful debate).</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Agro-Industrial Roots of Swine Flu H1N1 by Jason</title>
		<link>http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/04/26/the-agro-industrial-roots-of-swine-flu-h1n1/#comment-143</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-143</guid>
		<description>Who benefits from all of this hysteria of the H1N1 and who creates it?  Big pharma will reap billions by the time &quot;credible&quot; organizaions deem it controlled.  And now I read Squalene will be used as an adjutant in this vaccine even though it&#039;s never been approved for use in this country.  I think I will use the common-sense approach and make sure my Vitamin D levels are high enough for my immune system to fight this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who benefits from all of this hysteria of the H1N1 and who creates it?  Big pharma will reap billions by the time &#8220;credible&#8221; organizaions deem it controlled.  And now I read Squalene will be used as an adjutant in this vaccine even though it&#8217;s never been approved for use in this country.  I think I will use the common-sense approach and make sure my Vitamin D levels are high enough for my immune system to fight this.</p>
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		<title>Comment on About by Jennifer Shaffer</title>
		<link>http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/about/#comment-142</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Shaffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 02:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-142</guid>
		<description>I have been pondering this idea (flaws of biosecure, et cetera) for a couple of weeks now.  I&#039;m not an academic, so some of your writing is hard for me to fully understand (i.e., I haven&#039;t read any of your referenced books).  But, I am also one of those people who love to leap at ideas and start building connections, so I&#039;ve been kept quite busy.  I really enjoy reading what you write and hope you will continue:-) I read this article in the online version of the NYTimes today and wanted to share it, although you may know  it already:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/world/africa/20cairo.html
I&#039;d love to hear your thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been pondering this idea (flaws of biosecure, et cetera) for a couple of weeks now.  I&#8217;m not an academic, so some of your writing is hard for me to fully understand (i.e., I haven&#8217;t read any of your referenced books).  But, I am also one of those people who love to leap at ideas and start building connections, so I&#8217;ve been kept quite busy.  I really enjoy reading what you write and hope you will continue:-) I read this article in the online version of the NYTimes today and wanted to share it, although you may know  it already:<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/world/africa/20cairo.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/world/africa/20cairo.html</a><br />
I&#8217;d love to hear your thoughts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Agro-Industrial Roots of Swine Flu H1N1 by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/04/26/the-agro-industrial-roots-of-swine-flu-h1n1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 01:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/?p=94#comment-131</guid>
		<description>I think that swine flu has died down now. because i haven&#039;t heard of any more people actually getting it.
and at my school people are still bad mouthing mexicans and saying horrible things. i really think that people should stop blaming people about it, it isn&#039;t anyones fault!!! and half the people that are blaming it on other people probably dont even know a thing about it.
and by the way good article</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that swine flu has died down now. because i haven&#8217;t heard of any more people actually getting it.<br />
and at my school people are still bad mouthing mexicans and saying horrible things. i really think that people should stop blaming people about it, it isn&#8217;t anyones fault!!! and half the people that are blaming it on other people probably dont even know a thing about it.<br />
and by the way good article</p>
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		<title>Comment on The NAFTA Flu by rgwallace</title>
		<link>http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/the-nafta-flu/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>rgwallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/?p=131#comment-122</guid>
		<description>Sebastian, I think Mick&#039;s question is a good one and honestly offered. On the other hand, the best way to respond to Matt&#039;s neoliberal apologia, which repeats Mick&#039;s point, may be to avoid accepting his premises. 

Let&#039;s leave aside Matt&#039;s attempts to 1) minimize a pandemic of agricultural origins as an &quot;unfortunate health problem&quot;, 2) pawn off the pandemic onto nature alone and 3) frame multinational land grabs as good for rural Mexicans. His efforts refute themselves.

The more intriguing fallacy is that if the livestock industry didn&#039;t exist during the 1918 pandemic, livestock intensification isn&#039;t to blame for the latest pandemic. Something else must account for influenza&#039;s recurrence. 

What the argument misses is that pathogens have as much their own histories as humans do. They adapt to new ecological circumstances as they arise. Just because factory farms weren&#039;t around in 1918 doesn&#039;t mean that influenza hasn&#039;t adapted to them now. Otherwise it&#039;s kind of like arguing oil isn’t a cause for war today because the Romans never fought for it. We acknowledge our own historical trajectories. We should be able to acknowledge those of our pathogens.

I address this point in more detail &lt;a href=&quot;http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/04/05/bird-flus-industrial-revolution//&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/a-critical-moment-in-influenzas-history/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sebastian, I think Mick&#8217;s question is a good one and honestly offered. On the other hand, the best way to respond to Matt&#8217;s neoliberal apologia, which repeats Mick&#8217;s point, may be to avoid accepting his premises. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s leave aside Matt&#8217;s attempts to 1) minimize a pandemic of agricultural origins as an &#8220;unfortunate health problem&#8221;, 2) pawn off the pandemic onto nature alone and 3) frame multinational land grabs as good for rural Mexicans. His efforts refute themselves.</p>
<p>The more intriguing fallacy is that if the livestock industry didn&#8217;t exist during the 1918 pandemic, livestock intensification isn&#8217;t to blame for the latest pandemic. Something else must account for influenza&#8217;s recurrence. </p>
<p>What the argument misses is that pathogens have as much their own histories as humans do. They adapt to new ecological circumstances as they arise. Just because factory farms weren&#8217;t around in 1918 doesn&#8217;t mean that influenza hasn&#8217;t adapted to them now. Otherwise it&#8217;s kind of like arguing oil isn’t a cause for war today because the Romans never fought for it. We acknowledge our own historical trajectories. We should be able to acknowledge those of our pathogens.</p>
<p>I address this point in more detail <a href="http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/04/05/bird-flus-industrial-revolution//" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/a-critical-moment-in-influenzas-history/" rel="nofollow">here.</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on A Critical Moment in Influenza&#8217;s History by rgwallace</title>
		<link>http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/a-critical-moment-in-influenzas-history/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>rgwallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/?p=238#comment-121</guid>
		<description>A good point, Jim. I&#039;d ask, though, why separate the two? Concentrated animal feedlot operations produce 100 times the waste humans do. And unlike municipalities, agribusinesses are under no statutary obligation to treat their cities of shit. 

I address the point more specifically in the influenza post that follows &lt;a href=&quot;http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/08/26/biosecure-farms-not-so-biosecure/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good point, Jim. I&#8217;d ask, though, why separate the two? Concentrated animal feedlot operations produce 100 times the waste humans do. And unlike municipalities, agribusinesses are under no statutary obligation to treat their cities of shit. </p>
<p>I address the point more specifically in the influenza post that follows <a href="http://farmingpathogens.wordpress.com/2009/08/26/biosecure-farms-not-so-biosecure/" rel="nofollow">here.</a></p>
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